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Screentones with Loom #4: Moire and Overlay by LOOMcomics Screentones with Loom #4: Moire and Overlay by LOOMcomics
Moire and Overlays! I made it. Thought I'd never get here!

Next time...! Suggestions for future things welcomes. Corrections welcomed. Help welcomed. Feedback welcomed.


Planned Topics:

1. What is a Screentone?
2. Anatomy of a Halftone: Frequency, Angle, and Spot Shape
3. Before We Start: High-Res, Low-Res.
4. Moire Pattern and Overlays



:star: Image credits listed along the sides of images.

:star: In-text References:

1. From Design to Print: Preparing Graphics and Text for Professional Printing by Sandee Cohen.
2. Real World: Scanning & Halftones by David Blatner, Conrad Chavez, Glenn Fleishman, and Steve Roth. Blatner.
3. Draw Your Own Manga: All the Basics by Haruno Nagatomo


Thanks to :iconerin314:
Add a Comment:
 
:iconlimethanasia:
limethanasia Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2016
hello i have an issue when saving in specified format while using manga studio 5. when i used the tones in manga studio it looked perfect but when i saved in jpg format the tone looks terrible. i tried using blur and i also tried using their tones instead of custom ones but it still looks very bad. can you help?
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2016  Professional Interface Designer
I made a jpg cheatsheet for ms5 once. I will see if I can dig it up. Can you link me to some examples? Feel free to use stash and note me.
Reply
:iconlimethanasia:
limethanasia Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2016
yeah. i can try showing you my most recent page. it looks terrible after i turned it into jpg: limethanasia.deviantart.com/ar… this is how it looks in the app,limethanasia.deviantart.com/ar…  and this is how it looks in jpg .sta.sh/023pec0d1h04 this is the tone i used. i think it's pretty much like the one in the app.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2016  Professional Interface Designer
Hi, thanks so much for the reply back! If you're usin the export settings native to the program, sometimes that blurs the tones so much that they become solid blocks of gray. But resizing tones without blurring a little can make weird patterns emerge. I did walk someone throuh how to do this in MS, but it was a while back and I'll have to find the word document I made for her.


One last thn... Would ou mind sharing with me that version of MS/CPS you're using, the dimensions of your page, and your working resolution? Thanks! I can already see you're tryin to appl 55L tone at 20% but it helps a little to know the context of the project that's being applied to. ^^ Thank ou!
Reply
:iconlimethanasia:
limethanasia Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2017
yes sure. i'm using manga studio 5 and the canvas size is limethanasia.deviantart.com/ar….
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2017  Professional Interface Designer

I can't seem to view the first pic you sent me, so I'm not sure exactly what's going wrong with the jpeg export. But here is a copy of the instructions I had before. I haven't done it in a while, so this may not be valid. If you'd like, please send a HQ zip of your comic page to me via note and I can download and play with export settings inside MangaStudio. 

STEP 1:
-Create a copy of your file

STEP2:
-Open the new file
-Put all the tones into one folder
-Combine tones by right clicking on the folder and name it TONES_MERGED.

STEP3:
-Select merged tone layer
-Go to Blur>Gaussian Blur> Click (I clicked 4.70) 5.00 
-Click OK


STEP4:
-Now click File>Export Single Layer>JPG
-I usually add _web to the end of the file name.
-Keep quality at 100, change Expression Color to Gray, leave Advanced setting as is
-At Output Size select PX
-Save at desired width. I recommend keeping width between 650 and 900px
-Change Rasterization dropdown to Quality

Done!

Reply
:iconlimethanasia:
limethanasia Featured By Owner Edited Jan 4, 2017
alright i'll try to use this. thank you so much for your help ! :D
can i add you on skype to send you files? i'm not really familiar with deviantart so i think it would be easier to talk there
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2017  Professional Interface Designer
Sure thing. You should add Riri, too from LoomComics.com. I'll note you the e-mails. Did you ave any luck?
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconhikisaka:
Hikisaka Featured By Owner Edited Mar 23, 2016
can you please help me? I'm getting moire and my file size is ~5k x ~7k at 600dpi and I'm getting Moire with just using 1 screen tone 
Example, I've been trying for many hours to figure this out and it won't go away :| . I'm using Manga Studio. thanks. I want it look like your example C with the sky and birds
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2016  Professional Interface Designer
I can definitely try to help. Would you rather try to walk through it here or get on Skype or some kind of messaging system? :D

2 questions.

#1----Version of Manga Studio are you using?

#2-----Are you getting moire.....

(a) when you print it out in a proof at full size?

(b) in preview mode on your window while working inside the program?

or

(c) when you export it to jpegs for viewing on the computer?

Thanks!
Reply
:iconleaderofexigo:
LeaderOfExigo Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2015
I get moire effects whenever I read Manga on my phone unless it is fitted to the screen. I hope more authors will read this =^=
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2015  Professional Interface Designer
That makes perfect sense, because the browser is resizing the images and doing mathy-interference magic with the tone grids.
Reply
:iconleaderofexigo:
LeaderOfExigo Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2015
Sadly, the problem is rare enough (limited to resizing which is only done on phones that could now be considered old) that I doubt anything will get done about it. I understand that the authors did not think that it would happen but I wish they just used solid blob of color instead of dots anyways.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2015  Professional Interface Designer
Ok.
Reply
:iconkrisrix:
KrisRix Featured By Owner May 21, 2015
Thank you so much for the gaussian blur trick! :D I've been struggling with moire when scaling my print files down for e-pub purposes, and that ought to do the job!
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2015  Professional Interface Designer
You're super welcome!
Reply
:iconnightmaker:
Nightmaker Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Thanks for the tutorial!
Just as a little side note:
So as long as the dots from the second tone overlap the dots from the first tone there shouldn't be a moire-effect.
So you could use other screentone familes too, you just have to make sure that the dots precisely overlap, right?
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Professional Interface Designer
Yes! The secret of alignment is really just LPI / lines per inch. Though you can purposefully use odd effects if you like. ^_^ Sand tones are more forgiving than dots, for example.
Reply
:iconkagekabuki:
kagekabuki Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Ah, this is so wonderful! Now I can tone my manga pages at a bigger size for a better printing result THEN downscale for web! I've been trying to figure out how to do that for so long :')
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Professional Interface Designer
:heart: :glomp: :heart: :glomp: :heart: :glomp: I'm so glad!
Reply
:iconkagekabuki:
kagekabuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
^_____^
Reply
:iconalakotila:
alakotila Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
WOW. I want to be as helpful as you some day. Do you know anything about making textures?
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I'm sort of a noob to textures. Everything I learned about them I learned from watching :iconlilsuika:. --> lilsuika.deviantart.com/art/Cr…

:heart: I make do with a lot of paint and recycled materials. Lots of watercolor books have section dedicated to special effects that can be digitized. ^^ Collage is also neat. Like, I found a really old dictionary to use to materials (I'll try to tumblr some of these things one of these days.) Marbling paper is also really pretty to me and might be worth looking into if you like that sort of thing. ^^
Reply
:iconalakotila:
alakotila Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Thanks! I had tried the photography method recently, but was trying to figure out how to do it digitally. I might have to experiment traditionally, but I'm very terrible with paints. I can only draw! :( But it would be a good try and I do have paints somewhere....
Reply
:iconarcanehalo:
arcanehalo Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2013  Student General Artist
OHGOD THANK YOU. I always have this problem with digital resizing, the moire gets frustrating UGH. I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT LIKE THAT.

To blur BEFORE I resize. I always thought resizing it and then blurring (after I merged the layers) was much too taxing, and I didn't want to bother with cleaning up what blurred out of the lines.

But if I do it pre-resizing it won't really exit the lines. :icongenius-plz:
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Oct 28, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I'm glad this was helpful, hehehe! :hug:
Reply
:iconmonteglover:
monteGlover Featured By Owner May 13, 2013
that gaussian blur technique really helps for the screentones for web viewing!
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner May 16, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
It does. In some cases, A little Noise can be a big help, too.
Reply
:iconasjjohnson:
AsjJohnson Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
This is nice. ^_^
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I'm glad you think so! :'D
Reply
:iconziggyman:
Ziggyman Featured By Owner May 10, 2012  Professional General Artist
Nice job.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner May 11, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Thanks, Ziggy!
Reply
:icongreyeille:
greyeille Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for doing this, Loom. :D
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
I learned alot, so it was worth it! ^^
Reply
:icongreyeille:
greyeille Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
yay!
Reply
:iconviistar:
VIIStar Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012
nice - good advice for resizing for the web ^^
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
I just learned it, actually! Amazing what you learn when you start reading around! :O This whole thing has been so educational!
Reply
:icongrandmagic13:
Grandmagic13 Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
wow, keep it going! I've been looking for something like this for a year now! Arigatou gozaimasu
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Ah, I'm glad! I'll try to keep going. I'm constantly trying to take in all the suggestions and collect information accordingly. If there's something specific we need as a community, let me know! I usually learn more from questions/requests than anything else!
Reply
:icongrandmagic13:
Grandmagic13 Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well actually there is one more thing I'm always looking for: I can't really seem to find an overall good tutorial or description for foreshortening and drawing characters in perspective, there are some tutorials out there, but I haven't seen one yet, which had me grasp the concept intuitively. Also haven't found one with examples on typical shots for non-canonical views, like bird's eye or ant's eye views, if I could master that, it would definitely create some variety in my drawings.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 20, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
That is a toughie. Hm. I'll keep that in mind and keep an eye out for resources.
Reply
:icongrandmagic13:
Grandmagic13 Featured By Owner Apr 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Arigatou
Reply
:iconmangaka-yoshiaru:
Mangaka-Yoshiaru Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
In mangastudio , the bigger the resolution the bigger tone you need.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Interestingly, I noticed that about Computones plugin, too. You can select the "300 ppi" setting and the lpi frequencies range goes up to 40 lpi to 130 lpi, which is pretty fine and tiny. However, you switch to "600 ppi" set and the lpi frequencies of dot tones ranges from 20 lpi to 65 lpi -- a much coarser and bigger tone set. I'd assume MangaStudio is somewhat similar. ^^
Reply
:iconmangaka-yoshiaru:
Mangaka-Yoshiaru Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
smaller dpi, lagrer L. In about 300dpi needs 60L; 600dpi needs 40L . Well my preferance anyway.
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Ah, let's try and use ppi when talking about image resolution. MangaStudio labels it somewhat loosely (incorrectly), though they really should upgrade to standards used by Adobe, Corel, and Easy Paint Tool Sai (see Tutorial 3). As for tones, it's really a matter of preference. Do you want your screen frequency to be coarser or finer? Usually people use a mix of lpis and percentages to achieve different artistic values, tonalities, and effects. It's nice you know your preferences, though. ^^
Reply
:iconkitsko:
Kitsko Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Hobbyist
Thank you for making this! I've always wondered about mixing the tones Ls, and now I know why there were huge dots in the pages I resized, lol!

I have a question, if you mix tones from the same family, will they ever create moiré?
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
^^ Awesome. When you mix tone Ls, that means they're same frequency, their grids should theoretically match, because they have the same lines per inch. So there is less chance for a visible moiré effect to show up on your print. However, there's always a chance for moire to happen. For example,

Examples 85 L/ 10% + 85 L/ 30%

1. Sizing down from web will likely create moiré, even if you use the same lpis together.

2. Misaligned tone angles (such as when you accidentally rotate one of them; that gets them off-kilter and their grids no longer match up)

Hope that helps!
Reply
:iconunconventionalsenshi:
unconventionalsenshi Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
lol, I feel like I triggered that U_U I kinda feel like an ass for pointing that sky moire out, you just couldn't leave it imperfect, now could you?! :P even though it's just a digital version :XD: You're such a perfectionist, Loom-chan! :dummy: True trait of a great artist ^_^
Reply
:iconloomcomics:
LOOMcomics Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Eh, not really. It's always something I wanted to do; just never something I took the time to do, you know? It's hard to find time when I have so many projects! I actually learned things for my real-life job, so it's cool. I actually own all the books in the reference section, and I've been meaning to read them. :) I'm not sure if I'm a perfectionist -- looking at my laundry pile and sack full of scribbly drawings that need to be tossed out. I love imperfect things. =__= I just have a personal list of things to learn, and that was one of them. :giggle:
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Submitted on
April 14, 2012
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